Thursday, November 4, 2010

Hindu-Muslim inter religious marriages ( 1 )


I moved the whole post here .

(Here I am disabling the comments too, so people wanting to express their views they can do so there itself.)

34 comments:

Anonymous said...

i did read each and every case written in the above piece. but you should not be hostile to them. they were just victims of pseudo secularism of national culture that is telecast in all channels.
i pray that in future hindu women will be more careful.
i also pray that above girls are doing fine now away from all that trauma.

sir, I WISH YOU A HAPPY DIWALI and to those girls also.

admin said...

I am not sure about how you reached the opinion that I am hostile.

What do you want me to do, offer prayers? I stopped praying long back because if ever there is God he would never have been hostile to humanity by allowing Islam to become such a threat.

I was just pointing to how people think, that's it. I was just pointing to some logical mistakes which arise out of ignorance of Islam.

Any way, some of these girls, even after suffering, were giving wrong advises.

I already said I respect independent decision making. At the same time it needs to be understood that there is nothing wrong in criticizing esp. when they write ridiculous things and this can not be called hostility.

Anonymous said...

do not sorry. some of these girls have not brain. they say about freedom. and they work for against it. i has no sympathy for these sufferers.

Anonymous said...

i don't know the hell is written that muslim boys can marry non muslim girls and muslim girls do.i want to make clear that neither men nor women can do marraige with a kaafir(non muslim) untill the person converts to islam

Anonymous said...

What is written here is a good warning but like you said it may not make difference to such girls as I was one such. It is also bit harsh.

Hindu girls should understand that Islam leaves no room for tolerating non muslims. They reserve pure contempt for Hindus. In my case I have not converted but marriage is hell. I have no place to go may be this is the reason for continuing in this hell. My parents and brother left me no choice. Then I was equally harsh towards them at the time of marriage and I know I do not have right to criticize them now. Can you imagine a guy who married a Hindu girl beating his sister badly for she wants to marry a Sikh boy? Such is the hypocrisy of Muslim men.

If I want to contact the blogger, where can I get his/her e-mail id. Will blogger reply to this? I just want to write a mail to you.

The Mindset said...

Good post
I have no sympathy for these stupid girls, they bring disgrace on our religion and society and are a false trap for others.
In this context( u may disagree) honor -killing is better option than giving a muslims your child and producing more of your enemies.
I will link to this post, I really liked it.

h.g said...

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

If you have read about Islam or basics in converting to Islam, it is a decision made plainly for yourself and it can never be for anyone else..
Maybe those who converted felt pain after conversion because it might be against your own willing.. That is wrong as converting has to come from the heart, not by peer influence, love or any peer pressure.. It should be made within one's self to convert and your own willingness.. Believe me, if you do it for your own good and beliefs, you will feel really different as I am on verge of converting and it really makes my mind at ease.. Islam should never be a forced religion.. Remember that, cause that is ultimately wrong.. To convert due to other reasons other than your own beliefs..

admin said...

"..Believe me, if you do it for your own good and beliefs, you will feel really different as I am on verge of converting and it really makes my mind at ease.."

Sure, you can do whatever you want as you are probably a free citizen.

But, how much you really know about your Islam and your holy Prophet? May be you can share with me and my 'few' readers!

Anonymous said...

I KNOW this islamic hypocrisy, so I actively go seeking burkha clad chaste muslim women to bang without the benefit of marriage. YO muslim fanatics, go take a hike.

lekha said...

Thank you.
I was just struggling for last two years on a decision. After reading so many things on net and then seeing he insisting me to convert for the sake of his parents, I finally realized what it is all about when he quarreled with his sister over simple issue of having a Sikh boy friend. Yes, you are right that it is those in situation who have to make a decision and trust me, they are capable of finding any reason even if it is stupid and ridiculous to support their argument.
God, I ended all this before the whole thing reached my parents. After I made this decision, I felt like I was free again. At the same time, I find it bit difficult I was so close to self destruction. The one really that woke me up is the case (2) of Suchitra you mentioned.

At the time of my first reading, I even thought you were a Hindu fanatic or some kind of RSS idiot. Finally I am just curious about what made you to start this blog? Can I write to you, I mean your e-mail id?

lekha said...

Are you not going to reply?

Anonymous said...

.......

leana said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
leana said...

Hello everybOdy,I'm a muslim woman(born muslim not converted) n i read the articles
above n i must say that some intrigued me while others left me shocked.
First of all,to clear any misunderstanding i would like to give a good
definition of Islam.
Islam comes from the root arabic word "salam" which means peace, it is also derived
from the word "silm" which means to submit ure will to Almighty God .In short islam
means peace aquired by submitting ure will to almighty God.So u see from the very
definition of the word Islam,one can clearly deduce that , there is no compulsion
in the religion of Islam.

Yet other proofs where it is clearly shown that there is no compulsion in the
religion of Islam from the glorious Qur'an:

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error.
Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy
handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed.
Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)

Now coming back to the first article, the first thing i would like to tell the
woman who
converted to islam is that , she converted to Islam only to marry the man she was
in love with.She did not convert for the sake of Almighty God or for complete
submission to Almighty God.
continued...
"I were not allowed to do anything of my wish, coz Islam dose not allow a women
to decide. Everything was done according to man’s wish. I cannot do this, I
cannot do that, I cannot go alone anywhere. It was like a closed life in a free
world. If we go to out on picnics, we cannot eat at good restaurants, since
they belong to kafirs."
Now this is so untrue ,Islam never preaches that everything should be done
according to man's wish.....or that a woman cannot go out alone anywhere....if the
woman cared to know about the religion in the first place she would not have been
under such misconceptions about islam.Woman are allowed to travel alone as long as
the journey does not last more than three days and three nights.Only God alone
knows what kind of orthodox man this woman got married to and is putting all the
blame on Islam.

leana said...

Infact in the Quran,there is a whole chapter on women....never any other religion has
ever given so many rights and respect to women....
"Islam allows man to beat his wife" where on earth did she get that from??My God!!!
This so ridiculous,....
continued,..
Let me share something with all of u:
After the death of our prophet (saw), the person who was the most close to him was
his dear wife Aishah(Ra),so whenever a muslim needed advice about islam, they would
go to her....And she was well known for her intelligence n wisdom.
Can u imagine...more than 1400 years ago, women were considered inferior in every
society.....

Let us consider some facts together (plz do not take any offense ,this is not
to pinpoint any faith or belief in particular)
Arabia before Islam:
women were treated like slaves or property.Their personal consent concerning anything
related to their well-being was considered unimportant and unnecessary to such an extent
that they were never even treated as a party to a marriage contract.
The practice of killing female children was rampant. The pagan Arabs used to bury alive
their daughters with the fear that these girls will grow
up and will get married to some men who will be called their sons-in-law.

leana said...

The state of women in the early ages:
In India, the Hindu woman was the most suppressed creature. She was born to serve her men folk ?
her father and brother before marriage, and husband and father-in-law and husband's brothers after
the marriage. She was forced to worship her husband. After the death of her husband she had no right
to live and was forced to be burnt alive at the pyre of her husband. This inhuman custom was called the Sati.
If she had no issue from her husband, she was forced to lie with
her husband's brothers to get pregnant. This practice was called "Niyoga".
continued...
Women uotside arabia:
In Egypt and all European countries in the Dark Ages, women were treated worse than slaves. They were not
regarded as human beings but as sort of sub-species between humans and animals.

And finally, if a muslim kills a human being (whether muslim or non muslim) ,it is as if he has killed the whole
of humanity).

The most interesting part:
“Inna Lillahi Oa Inna Ilahi Rajeon” which means “Allah unhain jannat naseeb karay”
This is unbelievable!!!!
This makes me doubt , if this story is true or not.....

"Inna Lillahi Oa Inna Ilahi Rajeon" means To Allah we belong and to him we will return.

"Fee nari jahannama khalidin” is part of a verse of quran which was misquoted.
I"m a muslim and i swear by Allah that i've never come across such prayer upon hearing the death of
non muslims,......
I must say ure article left me dumbfounded,,....

kid said...

@ Leana, (Your first comment)

Shocked. Yes, that will be the state of any human who has read about your Islam and Your Prophet Mohammad.

They are so evil.

Come to the point.

Islam means submission.
Salam means peace.

'Islam' has not come from 'salam'. It just happened that these two words have the same root word: S-L-M. When Koran was revealed, there were no written vowels in Arabic.

Just because two words have same root does not mean they have same meaning.

'Islam means submission' can also be found from Koranic verses like 3:19, 3:85 and 2:136.

Can you show me a verse in Koran which indicates 'Islam' means peace?

I referred to translation by Yusuf Ali, Pickthall and Shakir.

I will direct you to some other Islamic sources:

http://knowing-islamic-doctrines.blogspot.in/2011/05/islam-means-submission-not-peace.html

http://www.al-qiyamah.org/_/islam_means_submission.htm

http://submission.org/#/d/Home.html
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/March/UK-Muslim-Leader-Islam-Not-a-Religion-of-Peace/

http://www.wamcf.org/Communities_Islam.htm

Your suggestion that by submitting to Allah means peace does not say that the word Islam means peace.

Yeah, I know that there are Muslim apologists who invented this lie of Islam means peace to confuse Non-Muslims.

Coming to the verse 2:256, I explained what it means using the entire context from your own authentic sources, you can read from below link:

http://knowing-islamic-doctrines.blogspot.in/2011/01/no-compulsion-in-islam.html

May be, you might answer this: If there is no compulsion in Islam, why your prophet Mohammad told Muslims to kill any Muslim who discards Islam. Sahi Bukhari records this and the number is 4:52:260.

If there is no compulsion, why Sharia law prescribes death penalty to those leaving Islam?

If there is no compulsion, why Iran has to arrest so many Muslims who converted to Christianity and even sentenced a Pastor, earlier a Muslim, to death?

Why Saudi and so many Islamic countries have such laws? Why do Muslims attack and kill other Muslims who leave Islam?

Why Non-Muslims have to pay Jizya and live in humiliating conditions under your Islamic law, if there is no compulsion?

If you want to talk about this verse, I suggest you to write what 'compulsion' means according to you? Otherwise, there is no point because you go in to circular reasoning.

Anonymous said...

@ Leana, (2nd comment)

Your suggestion of Koran having a chapter on women, Al-Nisa - chapter 4 - does not cover for misogyny in Islam.

There are many other topics in that chapter, even some verses regarding jihad.

Just because the title of Koranic chapter is women, it does not mean any thing.

There are chapters in Koran that are named COW (2nd) and even a chapter with name 'KAFIR'.

Name of another chapter is BOOTY(8 th).

Coming to Islam and women, you can read about what your Prophet said about women from below:

http://knowing-islamic-doctrines.blogspot.in/2011/01/hadith-on-muslim-women.html

Here it is not about Hinduism. Sill you mentioned it so, I can only say that you can your own conclusions from the irrefutable fact that Hinduism before Islam entered India has culture of society based on matriarchal system.

Do you think that a culture devoted to oppression of women has matriarchal system?

Only fools do that.

When Arabs first came to India to preach Islam , they mentioned the fact - and also laughed about - that Hindu women enjoying a high social status and position.

It all changed because of your Muslim marauders and rapists; read the proper history.

I think it is useless to discuss about this issue here; why don't we do it on facebook under the topic 'Islam on women'?

Coming to slavery, your Allah has literally granted permission to Muslim men to have unlimited number of women as slaves and also to have sex with them (verse 4:22- 24)

And you want to talk about women and slavery?

kid said...

Above comment is mine in reply to Leana.

kid said...

@ Leana ( Comment 3)

You continue to show your ignorance by referring to the verse 5:32.

That is a straight lift from jewish scriptures devoid of any context.

Worst thing is, you are being dishonest by not quoting complete verse. This is not the first time I come across this kind of dishonesty from Muslims.

Why did you leave the middle sentence? Any way I will quote for you:
005.032
YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

One can see how everything changes when I fill the middle part and left over part.

Now it is any ones guess what is mischief and so on.

Lets also see the next verse where it says about punishment for 'mischief':

005.033
YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

Leana, what you do not know is, in Islamic law (Sharia), if Muslim kills a Muslim, he could face death penalty.

But, if the same Muslim kills a Non-Muslim kills a Non-Muslim, there is no way he faces death penalty; he just has to pay some compensation to the family of the person killed.

It means value of life of a Muslim is more than value of life of a Non-Muslim. You can check it your self or refer to Saudi Law.

Worst thing is, in Islamic law testimony of a Non-Muslim is not accepted in courts.

I can even refer to your hadith in this regard:

Sahih Bukhari (Volume 4: Book 52:Number 283)
I asked Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?" 'Ali replied, "No, by Him Who splits the grain of corn and creates the soul. I don't think we have such knowledge, but we have the ability of understanding which Allah may endow a person with, so that he may understand the Qur'an, and we have what is written in this paper as well." I asked, "What is written in this paper?" Hereplied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, and the judgment that no Muslim shouldbekilled for killing an infidel."

Sahih Bukhari; (volume 9: book 83: Number 37)
, "By Allah, Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Rest is meaningless here.

Anonymous said...

sir soon i will start my blog and will let you know many muslim girls married hindu mens and are having happy married life.they enjoy freedom and satisfactorily sacrificed eating cow meat saying nonsense about hinduism and hindustan.

kid said...

You can do what you want.

Who can stop you from singing songs and praises for all those Mullahs and their love jihadi proteges?

Hindu said...

you have a hindu feminist at last. i do not see any thing that hurts and degrades hindu women written here. if one reads fully they will feel sorry and angry actually and take on ISLAM instead of you.

kid said...

@ HINDU,

In a sense, if it is Hindu girl who wrote that comment, she has valid points.

I wrote this post 2 years back and that time I have not come across cases of Hindu men converting to Islam to marry Muslim girls.

But now, I knew many of such cases, I myself received 4 e-mails from Hindu guys (latest one is also from a Hindu guy)about if they could convert to Islam to marry Muslim girls.

But, she is also overlooking the fact that I am not celebrating their pain and suffering. Or even ridiculing them.

I was being sarcastic and sarcasticism is always bit harsh.

But, what should I do? Should I write poems and songs in praise of them? Should I write that they are examples for tolerance and love?

She also should have noted that I covered all the relevant points. If I was sarcastic with out covering these points, then I am blame worthy.

Then I chose to be sarcastic at that time because I want girls or guys to come out of Bollywood pipe dreams, I felt it will be like instigation.

Of course, way back I realized that this could have adverse effect too as it might shut down the reader's logical ability, if they see it as hurting them.

Then I could do nothing because I am left with two choices, deleting the post or editing it. But, both amount to dishonesty and I chose to let this stay.

One clear thing is I do not see any misogyny in this post.

I corresponded with 8 Hindu girls till now, and no one ever accused me of being male chauvinist pig or possessing feudal mentality.

kid said...

If she is referring to my comment, "only God knows ....", well I made this kind of comment many times at many places, it is purely based on misunderstanding.

But it was always meant to be humorous and pointing to their mysterious, sensitive, emotional,fascinating nature - and femininity being very embodiment of mother nature.

One can even check my facebook page on issues related to women.

At the same time, I will say this: I am not a feminist and I despise these feminists who only turn to be hypocrites and inhuman.

Anonymous said...

Hello, I found link to this piece at a social site and found it very insightful. What I noticed is how relation starts with assurance of no force on conversion and then ending in agony even if some want to call that success. Recently a Muslim guy was hinting about relation and I felt unease and firmly said no and told him to avoid me. I decided to avoid him. But somewhere I was feeling bad thinking if I was harsh on him by avoiding completely and this post cleared those too. I feel very happy about my decision after reading this. Blogger mentioning Islamic beliefs on marriage and its purpose, all this is new to me. I do not know this important rule earlier. The first two cases mentioned by blogger are painful to read and it makes me more uncomfortable when I realize they have to spend their remaining life like that. Can there be more horrible for women than imprisonment in the name of marriage?

Neelam Agarwal
Ahmadabad

Anonymous said...

One of the most ignorant blogs i've ever had the misfortune of reading.

k.i.d said...

That is why you have hidden behind 'anonymous' !

Anonymous said...

if what these ladies wrote is what indeed happened to them, then i really feel sorry for them. Love is blind, i know that. thanks for warning us ladies. May God be with you.

Lily (UK) said...

Please soften the language a bit and make it readable in such a way that they do not get hurt. It is important that girls read the whole and start thinking.

Lily (UK) said...

To above anonymous,

'love is blind.'

He is only trying to open the eyes. If you put the emotions besides for some time i am sure you will see the real world.

k.i.d said...

To anonymous,

You wrote: "if what these ladies wrote is what indeed happened to them..."

I provided all the hyperlinks except for last 3 or 4 cases.

There are no lies here.

Another thing is I only commented on their observations on their experiences.

If you are a feminist too and are hurt by my comments, I can only say sorry.

k.i.d said...

@ Lily,

Any changes now means dishonesty. I rather delete the post.

In the previous comment, I forgot to give the source ( i.e. website ) for those last 3 or 4 cases.

Here it is:

asiansinmedia.org

(It looks like I have to disable this security check. It is really irritating.)