Tuesday, November 16, 2010

Now Triple Talaq on a Cell Phone! Evil Triple Talaq has basis in Sunna.

Islam is stupidity and barbaric; its law are stupid and inhuman. Then what can one expect from Islamic law when it was based on one demented man's teachings, who was obsessed with himself. The point that is addressed here is whether this cruel and inhuman law of triple talaq was invented later by Ulema or it has foundation in Koran and Sunna i.e. related to Prophet Mohammad directly.

Latest edition of fatwa issued by Deobandi Ulema says; (courtesy: outlook), according to a report:
{{{
Talaq uttered thrice by a Muslim man on a mobile phone will be considered valid even if his wife is unable to hear it all the three times due to network and other problems, a fresh fatwa has ruled.

The fatwa was given by Darul-Ifta, the fatwa department of leading Sunni Islamic seminary Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband, in reply to a query by a man.

The man in his query had asked that in case no witness was present when he utters talaq thrice to his wife over phone whether it would be considered valid or not.

"I angrily said talaq three times to my wife on cell phone but she claimed that she didn't hear it even once and nobody was around both of us. Please tell me whether talaq has taken place," he asked.

In its reply, Dar-ul-Ifta said, "If you have given three talaqs to your wife, all the three took place and she became haram (forbidden) for you."

The fatwa said the woman will be free to marry anywhere she likes after her iddat (three month period after divorce) is over.

"It is not necessary for talaq to take place that the wife hears it or the witnesses are present," it ruled.

In October, the seminary had ruled that saying talaq three times even on a humourous note is valid as per the Sharia (Islamic Law) and the marriage stands nullified.

A youth in his query had stated that while chatting with his wife over net he had jokingly punched talaq thrice.

Claiming to have less knowledge about Islam, the youth said he didn't know how talaq is executed.

The youth had stated that he was happily living with his wife and wanted to live with her in future as well.

Darul-Ifta in its reply had said once talaq is put out three times it amounts to divorce and her wife was "haraam" for him.

The fatwa section in its reply stated that in the process it does not matter whether the man had enough knowledge of Islam or not.

Under such circumstances the youth was neither allowed to take his wife nor to marry her again, it stated, adding now she would be required to go through nikah "halalah".

As per the ruling, the woman would be required to complete iddat period after which she would be required to marry another man.

The woman would be then required to divorce her second husband and go through iddat period again.

"Then only the woman would be allowed to re-marry her former husband," it stated.

"When you gave three talaqs, all the three took place. No matter whether the woman gives talaq or not. Your wife became haram for you whether you are aware of the commandments of Islam more or less," the fatwa read.

"Neither you have the right to take her back nor solemnise new nikah without a valid nikah halalah. After the completion of iddat period, the woman can marry where she wishes except you," it said, citing references from the books such as Bukhari and Fatawa al-Hindiyah etc.

Senior mufti of Dar-ul-Uloom Waqf Arif Kasmi said that under Sharia talaq even if made out in a lighter vein amounts to divorce.}}}} (End of outlook report.)

The trouble does not end here; in fact it is a starting of a nightmare for the woman.

I already pointed out in my earlier article that when triple talaq takes place, both husband and wife can not re-marry  unless that woman marries another man and has even sex with that (another) man (husband). (do not get confused with husbands). The following is the proof from manual of Sharia law of Shafi'i school of Sunni Islam, The Reliance of Traveller, which is approved by Al-Azhar University:
@N7.7.... When a free man has pronounced a threefold divorce (triple talaq), the divorced wife is unlawful for him to remarry until she has married another husband in a valid marriage and the new husband has copulated (dis: p29) with her, which at minimum means that the head of his erect penis fully enters her vagina.
No one knows what logic is behind this logic of marrying some other guy and having sex with him after this triple talaq? Actually some Islamic sources say that this condition was put in place to put an end to cycle of divorce and taking her back, every thing at the whim of abusive husband. During the time of Mohammad, there was a Muslim man who was harassing his wife by doing this just to keep her from marrying another man. So Mohammad came up with this solution. May be objective is clear and honorable, after we accept how ridiculously a husband can dump his wife with such an ease, but the solution is bizarre and cruel just like that demented Islam's prophet, Mohammad.

Lets take a re-look at this argument: An abusive Husband and an innocent wife. This was put in place to stop the abusive husband; but who is the sufferer here? The innocent wife (woman). An abusive husband is the cause and the consequence is woman who suffers more with this kind of solution. The great Islamic logic of infallible word of Allah! Have you ever wondered why Muslims say Islam is practical? Do not, because Muslims themselves do not tell you why because they do not know; this rhetoric is just like Islam is a religion of peace. An empty one.

Many people, Muslim apologists, I even read from a blog of brave Muslim girl, that Koran and Sunna do not support triple talaq? So, What is this triple talaq?

Let me explain in brief a  few points on divorce in Islam(in few steps):
1. Islamic law says that only a Husband can divorce his wife just by saying I divorce you; but a wife can never divorce her husband. But there is slight difference here; among the four schools of sunni Islam, three take the position that woman does not have the right to divorce. Only in Hanafi school, a woman can start the proceedings of divorce. The trouble here is law gives her the freedom but equally makes it more difficult for woman to divorce her husband. Unless her supportive parents are powerful and influential, this right is just non-existent.
2. Islamic law prescribes some waiting period and in this period if the husband changes his mind, he can take her back.
3. Then again he can divorce and in the waiting period he again can take her back. Till now he expressed his desire twice (two times or two fold) to divorce his wife.
4. Third time, if he divorces by saying 'I divorce you', the whole process of divorce is complete. He no longer can take her back. If he intends to, first she should marry some one else and have sex with him.
5. Instead of all this steps and waiting periods, if the husband says 'I divorce you' three times (this is called triple talaq) at a time continuously, the divorce is complete and can not be reversed. For the first two times the option of re-union is there in waiting period and it is only after waiting period that the divorce is formalized; but with triple talaq that option no longer exists.

Lets see some more laws regarding the divorce from Shafi'i law:
@N1.0: Who May Effect a Divorce. ((e) and the person who effects it (A: i.e. the husband).) (This means wife can never divorce her husband, if she wishes to; in complete contrary to what Muslims say 'Islam is the first to give women right to divorce')
@N1.2: A statement of divorce is legally effective when pronounced by a person whose mental faculties are lacking because of something inexcusable such as having become intoxicated or having needlessly taken some mind-altering drug. (Even a casual statement is sufficient for divorce.)
@N3.1: The words that effect a divorce may be plain or allusive. Plain words effect the divorce whether one intends divorce by them or not, while allusive words do not effect it unless one intends divorce by them.
@N3.2: Using plain words to effect a divorce means expressly pronouncing the word divorce (O: or words
derived from it).  When the husband says' "I divorce you,'' or "You are divorced,'' the wife is divorced
whether he has made the intention or not.
(A: Here and in the rulings below, expressions such as "The wife is divorced,'' or "The divorce is effected,'' mean just one of the three times (def: n9.0(N:) ) necessary to finalize it, unless the husband thereby intends a two-or threefold divorce (dis: n3.5) or repeats the words three times.)
@N3.4: When a husband is asked, "Have you divorced your wife?'' and he says "Yes,'' then she is divorced (O: even if he does not intend). ( All these tell that it is very simple for a Man to divorce his wife in Islam;)
The question that arises, like I wrote in the beginning, is whether Koran and Sunna supports triple talaq; many Muslims say they do not support. And these people blame this kind on Ulema for interpreting Koran and Sunna for their selfish reasons; some even say that this Ulema do not even know what is in Koran and Hadith. It is strange that these people (Ulema) spend their whole life studying Koran and Hadith literature and yet they are blamed by Muslims who have never studied Koran nor Hadith in their life.

Some say that it (triple talaq) is not mentioned in Koran. But Islam is not a Koran only affair; it is more about what Mohammad did and preach and this triple talaq indeed was put in to practice by Mohammad himself as the Shafi'i law says:
@N3.5 If the husband says, "You are divorced,'' and thereby intends a two-or threefold pronouncement, then whatever number he intends is effected, this rule holding for all words that effect divorce, whether plain or allusive. (O: The proof that a single pronouncement can validly effect a threefold divorce is the hadith classified as rigorously authenticated (sahih) by Ibn Hibban that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), when Rukana divorced his wife and then said, ``I did not intend it except as one time,'' made him swear an oath to that effect, and then returned her to him. If a single pronouncement could not effect a threefold divorce, there would not have been any point in the Prophet's making him swear the oath (Allah bless him and give him peace). )
The above hadith mentioned in the law statement is the reason why Muslim Ulema insist on this kind of triple talaq. These people do not question what is in Sunna and what is in Koran; they just go by it like zombies. But who is to be blamed? It is these Ulema who are only telling what is in their books or Koran and Mohammad in the first place?

Many Muslims like to continue in the belief that this kind of bizarre laws have nothing to do with Koran and Prophet Mohammad.

According to Islamic law, a husband saying 'I divorce you' only once is sufficient for divorce; but here with prescribed waiting period, it will not take place immediately and families might force the husband to take his wife back in this waiting time. But with triple talaq, this can not happen and the divorce is irrevocable; coming together again is impossible because she has to marry another guy and then has to have sex with him and then there is waiting period too; all this making it impossible for negotiations between parties or families involved. That is precisely men use this triple talaq. In most Islamic countries this triple talaq was banned.

15 comments:

aneela said...

. This seems like a very indepth research. However islam is not very difficulu? Yes there are some schools of thought. First about the point u made about the wife having had her 3 divorces. Whether done at once or at 3 separate times, makes her unlawful for the former partner until she marrys again and that marriage breaks under normal grounds, within which the wife has been with the 2nd husband only because people can use the talaak as a weapon also who says the 2nd marriage wil break up. Marriage usually takes place so 2 people can be together. Therefore, if the wife did marry again she obviously would want to under normal circumstances. Hence being intimate with each other would be natural. But if that marriage did break, and the wife did want to in back to former partner then he if also in agreement wil have to accept the fact she was with somebody else after him. Hence don't just divorce for the sake of it. Nobody is being taken the ADVANTAGE OF. Sometimes if we don't try to find out and then use re common sense and logic then naturally things won't seem right. However throughout the quran it says use ur understanding and logic and senses. Thats why we got them. If want to look for the worst in something thats what u wil see. U forget a big thing apart from god Allah (SWT ) there is also the devil i.e shaitaan. Perhaps u are not getting ur understanding due to the forces at play. We talk about some parts of religion and leave some out, then things wont make sense. There are laws made by goverments for the good of countries some times they don't make sense but if they are really good right and for all equally they wil be logical. Ok take care.

admin said...

Ms Aneela,

Logic and rationalism have been thrown out of Islamic thinking about 1000 years back.

For this, you can thank Imam Ghazali considered 'Rock of Islam'. He was the last one to do free thinking and he did that to ban others to think freely (Exception is Averroes).

Now tell me, what kind of logic and reason will deny that this triple talaq is inhumane?

I just mentioned the condition for re-marriage as stated in Koran.

My point is, this skewed logic can not be word of God and there is nothing specialty or superiority to Islamic laws; in fact they tend to be more ugly.

Which parts of religion of Islam you want me talk about?

There can not be any worst in Koran by our logic because it it is word of God and infallible and valid for all times.

By accepting presence of bad things in Koran you are just making Koran less sacrilege.

For me it is a ugly book. To have reforms yes, you need to agree that there are bad elements in Koran. But your brothers in Ummah may not agree with you.

For me, there is not much difference between shaitan and God (Allah) if Koran is word from (God)Allah. Shaitan appears to be less of a sadist than Allah.

Anonymous said...

admin, you son of the biggest bitch in the whole universe dont you dare say anything about islam the koran or Allah swt or the blessed prophet Muhammad saw.u will rot in hell with satan.we the true muslims are not terrorists read the koran of allah compassion towards his humans which is more than the compassion of a thousand mothers,and your ugly shitified piluted eyes will open.our life is true i dont know what religion u hav whether your mother taught you or not but its better to live by the koran rather than get fucked by every man in the street and carry six diffrent guys babies in six years in this world of ignorance islam is the one and only true religion and way of life.whenyou die[admin] and allahs wrath will come on to ypu where you gonna run?? to satan your father.even he wont help you cause your both doomed no one will help you.read about the punishments in the grave and trust me you will PISS in your poofied pants.death be upon you.

admin said...

Lol! It looks like we have Prophet Mohammad back?

You know what terrorists are some what honest because they tell what Koran says really.

But you so called non terrorist Muslims just lie about what Koran says or abuse when facts stare in your face.

It is very sad to see you hiding behind the mask of anonymous but it is obvious that you do not have guts to discuss.

OnlyTruthMatters said...

Check this my ignorant friend.

http://www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/skn/SK_04.htm

Most of what you have written is out of hate & lack of knowledge. There are some bad apples in all societies, that doesn't mean that becomes the truth. Islam currenlty is facing tough times because of ignorant people within (so called ulema's & outside (ppl like you who hate anything that is islamic).

And ranting like the post earlier who talks about compassion & hates in the same line won't change anything, however if you want to prove your point you don't have to be derogatory, if you don't respect no one will respect you.

You talk about terrorists are honest because they tell what Quran say...

Why don't you do some fact checking and prove it... just like you didnt even mention Quran in your support, they too forget to do the same (& I don't mean by single verse coz for your info they need to be understood in full context)

The Mindset said...

Seems like there are only BAD APPLES among Muslims Here is the report card of your "The Religion of Peace "
550 dead
125 attacks
1027 injured
really peaceful Islam is :

The Religion of Peace Report February 2011

admin said...

@ only truth matters,

In my blog,I quoted from what Koran says and hadith say.

I quoted what many famous Islamic scholars like Ibn Kathir, Ibn Khadlun and Maududi say regarding those verses. I used one classical tafsir of Ibn Kathir and modern one by Maududi in my analysis.

I explicitly read biography written by Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, 22nd edition.

Finally and more importantly, I quoted from what Shafi'i law (Reliance of Traveller) says on many matters like Jihad, Jizya and Dhimmitude, Triple Talaaq and Blasphemy law; this shafi'i law is approved by none other than Al-Azhar university which is the supreme seat for Islamic learning.

So, please stop kidding.

ACE2009 said...

My ex husband was British atheist, went to emirates, converted to Islam (sunni) and divorced me under talaq by calling me once saying I divorce u. He says he had witness., We had been married 12 yrs in UK wiv 2 sons. He is British and I am. I got NOTHING and he got our sons(not seen them for 2 years). Our life saving and everything he got to keep.... Sheikh in court laughed at me and signed divorce paper cos I refused to sign them. I worked 12 yrs and raised my sons well. He took everything and left me homeless an penniless through Sharia Court!!!

admin said...

I feel sorry to read about your experience.

But, still British media is praising sharia courts and your Govt. has legitimatized them.

You were not the first one nor will not be the last one.

Your case is different, although, as your husband converted to Islam. Probably, he wanted to get rid of you and took the easy way or might have fallen in love with a Muslim girl.

Recently, I read another piece in your media which highlighted and glorified how these courts work by citing one stupid example.

Beating wife.

When media, even bloggers do censoring, reports selectively, this kind of abuse continues.

I hope you recover completely.

faizi said...

dear, in islam waman can have khula(separation). In hinduism there is no way to separate, she has to die with her husband. In christianity u can see what is happening in europe nd in america, even the marriage is not considered as pious thing, it considered as sin and all blame of sin are on woman. u just tell for which religion u wanna know i will tell you

Anonymous said...

talaq is right of man as judge has right to give decision either victin hear or not, he accept or not. Same is woman has right of khula(separation), either man accept it or nt. Do u know in hinduism there is no provision of talaq, she hv to marry for all lifes ie 7lifes. She has to burn wid her husband body. It is later in 21st century hindu marriage act formed in india which give right to both man nd woman to divorce. Stil if u want to take talaq u have to give some solid reasons. If court do nt consiter enough evidence for talaq u hv to live as husbnd wife, ur life may b hell, u have to live. In christianity their basic doctrine was that woman was mother of sin nd root cause of all evil, (islam say there is paradise in ur mother legs nd any one who have thre girls, he dnt discrimintae them, feed them, educate them nd marry them, he wil enter in jannah, it was asked if there is two girls, it is replied that yes he wil get paradise) she was the primary source of inciting man towards sin, all human ills nd troubles emanted from her. Divorce nd khula were absolutely prohibhted in christ society, woman shld feel ashamed of her beauty nd charms.er victin hear or not, he accept or not. Same is woman has right of khula(separation), either man accept it or nt. Do u know in hinduism there is no provision of talaq, she hv to marry for all lifes ie 7lifes. She has to burn wid her husband body. It is later in 21st century hindu marriage act formed in india which give right to both man nd woman to divorce. Stil if u want to take talaq u have to give some solid reasons. If court do nt consiter enough evidence for talaq u hv to live as husbnd wife, ur life may b hell, u have to live. In christianity their basic doctrine was that woman was mother of sin nd root cause of all evil, (islam say there is paradise in ur mother legs nd any one who have thre girls, he dnt discrimintae them, feed them, educate them nd marry them, he wil enter in jannah, it was asked if there is two girls, it is replied that yes he wil get paradise) she was the primary source of inciting man towards sin, all human ills nd troubles emanted from her. Divorce nd khula were absolutely prohibhted in christ society, woman shld feel ashamed of her beauty nd charms.

Anonymous said...

divorce nd khula is totally prohibited in christianity, the max that culd b done in extreme cases is to cause separation btwn the spouses, nd it is all. In such a case neither a man nor a woman is entitled to remarry, (it worse). It is considered vicious, rather sinful, for d spouses to remarry after the death of their life partners. Thesedays in european cntrs to change husband nd wifes is fashion. No family life is there. Bcz i am gentleman i cant ask a child his fathers name in europe nd america.

Anonymous said...

admin i knw u dnt want to knw, allah hs stampd ur heard nd brain stil i am teling for others. If any given talaq then he can nt marry again until that woman marry another person nd if that person also give talaq or dies than earlier person mary her. Note there are 'if'. If a person mary a woman predetermining to give her talaq there is no mariage. What u mention abt halala that is wrong practice, nd prohibited, it is mockery to religion. What is allowed nd shld b alwd, is what i told that if second person by chance give talaq then she can marry wid previous husband again. For this in second marriage there must be khilwat e sahiha(ie coupling). I cnt undrstand what is wrong wid it. Should they nt mary again or a person keeps on giving talaq nd separation then union, then separation then union what a joke.

k-i-d said...

@ the 'mysterious' anonymous,

This post is about showing triple talaaq was 100% Islamic and started by your Prophet Mohammad unlike what moderate Muslims (I rather say deceptive Jihadists) write in media i.e. triple talaaq is un-Islamic.

Finally, be clear about what you are writing. And it is your brain or head that needs to do some soul searching on your Allah and his 'BANDIT' Prophet.

Anonymous said...

Dears,

All religions have good virutes but we ( human beings ) are the ones who not truly follow the perfect commandments of religions. So if we don't follow the religion, then our actions cannot represent the religion. Whatever good or bad we do is not Islam or any other religion. Regarding the saying that Islam is religion of peace. Yes it is. In order to understand this, we have to study it. I can quote many many Hadith from Prophet Muhammad about Peace, prosperity, no to kill others, justice, respect to others etc. What presently going on, it has nothing to do with any religion, these are world powers who wants to occur the same. World powers buy some people and then they use them for their own causes. You see what is happening in Syria. Who is supplying Arms to the opponets of the Government. Who supplied Arms to so called Mujahideen against the Government in Kabul ( Afghanistan ) in the time between 1980-1990. Who is supplying Arms to Daeesh now in Iraq. Who attacked Iraq and why?? Who attacked Afghansitan & why?? Who attacKed Vetname & why?? Who is interfering in other countries, Muslims or non-Muslims. Who Killed Hundrends of Millions of innocent human beings in Europe during 1st and 2nd world wars. If we tally all the killings in Muslim countries, we cannot reach those numbers in coming years even. Who killed Hundred Thousand people in Janpan?? So while discussing, some one has to look all around & utter the truth to save the humanity from the frustration we face today.