A Conversation with a Hindu girl

Two days before, strangely I got an e-mail from a Hindu girl - I am guessing she is sophisticated, secular and liberal in outlook and idealistic too - accusing  me of being communal and saying Hindus like her are ashamed of me.

And I wrote to her that we could have a discussion on this and she agreed , surprisingly, to it and it was presented below.

Me(CHB) - communal and supposedly mean Hindu bigot - and the Hindu girl’s name for the purpose of presentation is  XYZ

CHB:  I am not sure if you have read anything I wrote. If you read and do inquire you will find that what ever I wrote here is from Islamic sources itself.

XYZ:  Hello, I am not interested in reading lies written by hate mongers like you. Even BJP says Islam is a religion of peace and it preaches tolerance. So, you should stop creating hatred between communities. In fact, all religions are same and teach the same thing.

CHB:  OK, I will stop doing. Since you are not interested in reading things written by me, how about you explain certain things.  And you do, I will close my blog !

XYZ:  Huh.....OK, I will try.

CHB:  First you should know that I have nothing to do with BJP politics or RSS ideology.

XYZ:  How am I suppoded to believe it? Just your words !

CHB:  Actually, BJP and RSS are stupid and they did great harm to genuine and humane cause of Hindus in India.

XYZ:  So you are worse than they.

CHB:  I really have no problem with what you think about me. Following is my first point:
How do you explain near disappearence of Hindus and Sikhs from Pakistan if you claim Islam is tolerant and preaches tolerance? Their population went from around 20% in 1950s to around 1% now; according to reports in the year 1998, their population is about 1.6% of Pakistan.

XYZ:  Huh.....I do not know about all this. But Islam is a religion of peace. Pakistan is just one Islamic country out of many. Why use Pakistan as a yardstick?

CHB:  What do you think of continuing  and ongoing persecution of few remaining Hindus and Christians by abducting their women and using blasphemy charges? Blasphemy law of Pakistam (part of Sharia too) mandates death penalty to those who criticize any thing that has to do with Islam i.e. Koran, Prophet Mohammad and Sharia law.

XYZ:  I think it is few bad Muslims and few extremist Islamic organizations that create trouble and do such horrible things. Majority of Pakistanis are moderate Muslims and Islam is a religion of peace and teaches tolerance. I read from news papers that blasphemy law is un-Islamic.  Islamic scholar Ashghar Ali Engineer too says this.

CHB:  Around 80% of Pakistani moderate Muslims  – according to an opinion poll conducted by Pew  –  support blasphemy law  and death penalty to apostates i.e. Muslims leaving Islam and enter another religion. Vast majority of them also support Islamic punishemnts like amputations and stoning adulterers to death. This is moderate Islam you are speaking about?

XYZ:  Huh.....that opinion poll must be wrong.

CHB:  Can you also explain how population of Hindus in Bangladesh came down from around 30% in 1970s to around 7% today? Or Bangladesh is also an lone Islamic nation?

XYZ:  Huh......I do not know....but Islam preaches tolerance and promotes harmony. Yes, Turkey and Malaysia are examples of successful moderate and modern Islamic  countries.

CHB:  Turkey. Turkey does not give equal rights to all its citizens. Only very recently, Non Muslums are asking Govt. Of Turkey to grant them rights on par with Muslims. You can read from below:

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-271942-turkeys-non-muslims-seek-equal-citizenship-rights-in-constitution.html

Regarding Malaysia, you are misinformed. Malaysia practices legalized discrimination against all Non Muslims. Below is the link:

http://knowing-islamic-doctrines.blogspot.in/search/label/islam%20in%20malaysia

XYZ:  ( After some time...) Huh.....I do not know but I heard that Islam sanctions freedom of religion and it is the first one to do so. Mr Ali Engineer says this in our English news papers. May be these countries are not following real Islam. You see, I have Muslim friends who are very good. Some of them have even returned from Saudi Arabia and Iran.

CHB:   I can see your level of knowledge and it is not your fault. Iran is thoroughly Islamic. Only recently, it has arrested many Muslims who converted to Christianity.

http://www.bosnewslife.com/20805-iran-detains-dozen-christians-in-major-city

It also has sentenced a Christian pastor to death because he left Islam:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/02/22/iran-court-convicts-christian-pastor-convert-to-death/

Regarding Saudi Arabia, it is a monster. It neither has temples nor churches in its nation. A Christian can not even carry a Bible or Cross in to that Kingdom. At the best a Non Muslim can only pray in his own house and all Non-Muslims are forbidden from even setting their foot in Mecca. Very recently, An important Saudi Mufti was calling for destruction of all Churces in countries around Saudi Arabia.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/16/destroy-all-churches/

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/11358/saudi-mufti-destroy-churches

More over, according to Saudi law, not all people are equal e.g. if a person dies in an accident, Saudi law ensures that family of the deceased is liable for compensation of certain amount of money depending on that person’s religion and sex. Law says:
{{{   5. Maximum Amount admissible :
The maximum amount of Death Compensation (Diyya) generally admissible in Saudi Arabia,  in respect of road/traffic/fire accident, murder, etc. is as under:
Death Compensation in respect of a male person:
i.        Muslim       -        SR. 100,000/-
ii.       Christian/Jew  - SR.50,000/-
iii.      Other religions : such as  Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, etc. -  SR 6666.66
In the case of death of a female, death compensation allowed is equal to half the amount as admissible to males professing the same religion.
http://knowing-islamic-doctrines.blogspot.in/2010/05/koran-says-muslims-and-non-muslims-are.html }}}

XYZ:  ( After some time)  That hyper link on Saudi Law is not working.

CHB:  Yes. It looks like Indian Embassy might have removed this page as people spreading truth of discrimination in Islamic law are using this info. But you can check about this Saudi law on the net itself. Just google.

XYZ: ( No response...)....

CHB:  OK. You can read from below link: (Read the 9th paragraph)

http://middleeast.about.com/od/saudiarabia/a/me081128a_2.htm

Here, you can even see that testimony of a Non-Muslim is not allowed in Saudi Courts.

XYZ:  (After some time)  Yes.  I see it.  But my Muslim friends tell me Islam treats all people equally.

CHB:  There are 2 reasons for it. One is they are ignorant of what Islam teaches and other is they are in Taqiyya mode.

XYZ:  Taqiyya mode? What is it?

CHB:  Muslims can lie to Non-Muslims about anything  if it serves the interests of Islam. Here, they might be hoping that one day you might convert or, if your friend is a male, he might want to marry you. It is completely lawful for Muslims to lie to Non-Muslims. You can read about taqiyya below:

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

XYZ:  I can not believe all this. On marriage, I might or I might not. No one proposed to me. And I am not against  interreligous marriages. A relative of my friend married a Muslim guy and she is happy even after converting to Islam.

CHB:  There is no way you can be certain about she being happy.  She might not be wanting look foolish infront of others for it is her decision to convert and marry, so she will be saying she is happy. Conversion, yes, thats what will happen. The guy first says there is no need of conversion; onve you have committed, he does not have to stay by his words and changes his stance. This is completely legal in Islam.

XYZ:  I hear about many interreligious marriages and is conversion necessary?

CHB:  According to Islamic law, Muslim men can marry Non-Muslim women but Muslim women are forbidden from marrying Non-Muslim men. Every law of Islam is a double standard and discriminatory towards Non-Muslims. Islam is one fascistic system.

http://knowing-islamic-doctrines.blogspot.in/2010/11/hindu-muslim-inter-religious-marriages.html

XYZ:  Wait. But I have seen some Muslim women marrying Hindu guys. What about this?

CHB:  Yes. But very rare. Probably the ratio will be 15:1. You probably might have noticed  that the Hindu guy must have converted to Islam. But canonical Islamic law – derived from Koran – awards death penalty to Non Muslim men even for approaching Muslim women. Muslim women marrying Non-Muslims guys never takes place in Islamic countries. It leads to riots and collective punishment of Non-Muslims. There are many such incidents in Egypt. You can google on this.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/344143/law-and-order-25-arrested-for-assaulting-woman-accused-of-apostasy/

XYZ:  There must be some other normal and secular Muslim majority nation....

CHB:  We will see. I am sure that Afghanistan needs no introduction even for you.

In Iraq, Christians have moved out in the wake of numerous attacks on Churches and their properties:

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/10912/iraq-christians-near-extinction

In Nigeria, it is every day news that Islamic terrorists of Boko Haram kill Christians in North. Boko Haram wants entire Nigeria to adopt Sharia law: (Go to the end of below article.)

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/12/al-qaeda-boko-haram-links-in-kano-since-2009/

In Sudan, about a million Christians have been told to leave Northern Sudan:

http://www.eni.ch/featured/article.php?id=5521

http://au.christiantoday.com/article/christians-targeted-in-sudans-ethnic-cleansing/13002.htm

In Syria, Islamic rebels started targetting Christians:

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/11322/syria-christians-fate

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=13743

http://www.eurasiareview.com/26022012-syria-armed-attack-on-catholic-monastery/

In Egypt, Coptics always struggled with Muslim men abducting Coptic women and faced discrimination and persecution at the hands of Islamic organizations and state machienary. Even during the time of Mubarak, population of Coptics is coming down; it is reported, now, that there is a increase in number of Coptics moving out of Egypt as Islamic parties have won the elections by wide margins:

http://bikyamasr.com/59521/egypts-copts-protest-disappearance-of-girls/

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=359158&MID=0&PID=0

XYZ:  All this can’t be true, right. But every one says Islam is a religion of peace and grants freedom of religion.

CHB:  If we take middle East and North Africa, freedomhouse.org reports that on the index of religion of freedom this region scores just 2%. While Christian America scores 83% and Europe scores 84%.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/regions/middle-east-and-north-africa
http://www.freedomhouse.org/regions/americas
http://www.freedomhouse.org/regions/western-europe

XYZ:  Forget all this. What about Indonesia? It is secular.

CHB:  I was expecting that you mention this. Indonesia is largely liberal compared to other Islamic countries. Secularim is enshrined in its constitution. But Islamization is taking place at rapid speed in Indonesia too. Aceh, a province of Indonesia, already carries out strict Sharia punishments like amputations and stoning for adultery. More over, there is proliferation of Islamic organizations and they openly resort to violence on even ridiculous matters. Importantly, Ahmadi sect has been brutalized and even Army participated in the violence against this community. And Govt. Has not shown any resove to fight increasing violence from Islamic groups. We can safely say that secularism of Indonesia is limited to books.
                                                                                                                                                                                         http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/12/indonesia-islamic-extremists-push-for-demolition-of-five-churches.html

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/West-Java:-Islamic-extremist-groups-threaten-Catholics,-Christmas-celebrations-at-risk-23521.html

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/West-Java:-Catholics-celebrate-Christmas-Mass-in-a-parking-lot-20354.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/indonesia-muslims-enraged-by-call-for-a-friendly-islam.html

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/indonesian-shiite-refugees-denied-food-told-to-go-home/489113

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/indonesia-atheist-attacked-by-angry-mob-faces-jail-time-for-writing-god-doesnt-exist-on-his-faceboo.html

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/seasia/islamic-group-tells-muslims-dont-attend-rituals-of-other-religions/497918

http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Religion/Indonesia-Islamist-groups-object-to-gender-equality-bill_313090806309.html

XYZ:  What about OIC, Organization of Islamic Cooperation?

CHB:  What about it! It is formerly known by name Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC). In 1990, it passed a resolution – commonly known as Cairo Declaration - which literally affirms – in the article 25 –  Sharia law as the only source of law for referance. And Sharia law treats women and Non-Muslims as second class and fourth class people.

http://www.unausa.org/page.aspx?pid=1061

If you are looking for tolerance in Islamic law, you can search here:

http://knowing-islamic-doctrines.blogspot.com/2010/11/sharia-law-on-non-muslims.html

Some Muslim spokesmen try to present strictures of Sharia law regarding Non-Muslims as antiquated elements belonging to past. But these strictures having roots in foundational texts of Islam like Koran and sayings of prophet Mohammad, they became inalienable part of beliefs of Muslims and guide them in their relations with Non-Muslims.
Can you affirmatively say that Islamic beliefs have no part in present day situation where in Non-Muslims are persecuted?

XYZ:  Huh.....I do not know and I mean can all this be true? I think I have to recheck all your sources...Bye.

Thus, our conversation ended.

As always, once one keeps their foot in their mouth, it is never easy to get it out. Even paramedics can not help in such cases.

P.S. This discussion never took place actually. While I gave her short and courteous reply, she never responded to it. So, I took the liberty to construct one such to see how it would be.